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April 14, 2004

Petition to Deport the Khadr Family

I have been somewhat outraged this week that the Canadian government allowed the Khadr family back into Canada. The mother has brought her 15 year old son back to Canada so that he can receive free health care after being paralysed in a shootout between Pakastani forces and terrorist groups. His father was killed in the attack. In my opinion, being self proclaimed members of a terrorist organization, they have lost their rights to Canadian citizenship and the benefits it provides. Bin Laden isn't looking after them any more, so they come crawling back to Canada with their tails between their legs.

On my way into work this morning I heard about an online petition to deport the Khadr family so I did a search for it and signed it. If you feel the same way, throw in your support by clicking the link and signing.

Posted by Rob at April 14, 2004 10:31 AM
Comments

Thankyou Rob,this is a proactive step towards being part of a solution,not just complaining .

Posted by: Bob Fayle on April 15, 2004 09:18 PM

Thanks for the compliment, but it is not me, but Donna Campbell who deserves the congratulations because it was her who had the idea and put the petition up. If anyone wants to thank her, you can find her email address at the bottom of the petition.

Posted by: Rob on April 15, 2004 10:39 PM

When he was injured, was he a terrorist, or in the Pakastani forces?

Posted by: Parawanna on April 16, 2004 01:32 AM

He was fighting with the Terrorist forces. Check out this CBC In-Depth report on the family...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/khadrfamily.html

Posted by: Rob on April 16, 2004 09:57 AM

Only in the nation of Canada would this kind of crap be allowed - all things to all people. As a nation, we desperately need leaders with balls and backbone,
who aren't afraid of the consequences of taking a stand for what is right. Right now, all we got is a bunch of spineless pussies running (and ruining) our country in Ottawa.

Posted by: Donald K Munroe on April 17, 2004 10:08 PM

Mrs. Khadr must be reminded that Canadian citizenship does not ONLY allow her to "demand" her rights, it also carries with it responsibilities - to obey our laws, to honour our country and its traditions, to pay taxes and respect her "right" to vote. She, her late husband and her sons left Canada to support Al Caida - in direct contravention of their oath of citizenship. Their citizenship status should be revoked and they should be deported. I don't know how they paid for their one-way air fare to Canada, but they don't deserve Canadian citizenship and, in this case, I don't care if we taxpayers have to pay for their return to their original home as long as they are not allowed to come back. Their only reason to come to Canada in the first place appears to be to take advantage of the benefits they could derive.

I must add that I have met many Muslim immigrants who are glad to be here for the right reasons.

Posted by: H.J.LLOYD on April 19, 2004 07:21 PM

sadly, the khadr deportation petition has been completely blanked off the net it seems. I cant find any traces as to the whereabouts or results. Last time I checked tens of thousands had signed it.
I imagine the self interest and special interest groups, along with the ones giving Donna death threats, were instrumental in erasing it.
Anyone find out further where/why?

Posted by: B Schurman on April 21, 2004 02:05 AM

I wish i was able to sign that petition before it was taken off the web. The khadr family are terrorists and should be treated as such. Only in Canada would our government be foolish enough to allow admitted terrorists to stay in our beautiful country and leech off our over-burdened medicare system. To be assoiciated with people like the Khadr family, for them to be called canadians makes me feel ashamed for the first time in my life to be called a Canadian.

Posted by: P. Wong on April 21, 2004 03:34 AM

Missing Khadr Link: Is this the way it works now? It is sad to think that Canadians can not speak out! It would be interesting to find out WHO took the link out.

Posted by: S Murphy on April 21, 2004 09:00 AM

If that little piece of excrement, Karim, ever gets to fulfil his lifelong dream of blowing himself up and taking innocent people with him, he had better hope his intended target has a ramp. How is it that Abdurachman Khadr doesn't have a job and claims to be pennyless yet he applies for a passport (yet another one to replace the several he has 'lost'), gets turned down (the first thing the government of Canada has done right in this matter), and has money to launch a legal challenge? Get rid of them all. Too bad he really wasn't a CIA agent. He would have been 'erased' by now.

Posted by: David Weatherbe on May 4, 2004 05:46 AM

All this sounds much like over here in Europe where convicted Islamist radicals are supported in their legal fight to remain in country and receive full social benefits instead of being moved back to their countries of origin, where they might face a stricter ruling, ie in Turkey, all the while continuing to plot and plan in the dark. And the authorities are helpless as the law does not allow for prosecution based on mere suspicions, so we wait for the disaster before actions can be taken, and after, the same old spiel begins.

Europe has been lamed in broad areas of decision making politically, economically and militarily, all based on the premises of equal rights and personal freedom and cultural diversity.

All these are fine as long as all parties involved respect the personal sphere of the others, which is not the case when dealing with a totalitarian culture, or radically inclined persons.

I believe even here at this topic we can witness how little the quest for genuine tolerance is granted, ie. the removal of one petition just so it can be replaced by another of the same nature all the while claiming one was racist the other not?

Granting one group of ''perpetrators'' the right to remain, provides a statutory example for others to claim the same rights.

We certainly would want to avoid a scenario all over the globe when we might end up granting exile to ex terrorists, and unless we receive benefits for our security, this should remain an exception.

Posted by: tick on May 5, 2004 04:49 PM

It's a shame that the petition was removed.I was one of the people who signed it beacause I was outraged like many law obiding Canadian citizens that Canadian government brought Khadrs back and support them fully even though they were and probably still are linked to Al Qaeda.Canadian government claims to fight terrorism but only on paper not in deeds. What a joke! And because Khadrs are Muslims, other opinions are viewed right away by their sympathizers as "Racist" What a B.S.

Posted by: dvichar on May 13, 2004 12:49 PM

Our federal government should put an immediate
stop to all these Arabs of no fixed address
coming into our country, waving the banner
"Refugee Status"

Really, how gullible can our leaders be???

Personally, I wouldn't trust an arab as
far as I can throw one.

All the new media in the western world are
pro-arab and anti-jew. I putting my money
on the jewish nation of Israel.

Posted by: Donald K Munroe on May 15, 2004 01:28 AM

(1) There is something called "Canadian Law" and "Canadian Constitution".

(2) If a Canadian Citizen violates the Canadian Laws or Constitution, there are implications within the bill of rights to deal with the situation.

(3) Those who shout the words of "deport" and racial comments about "arabs" ore violating the canadian laws pasically.

(4) if the "Khidrs" have violated the Canadian Laws, then the person targeted should be charged by the Canadian Legal authority based on the fact that any Canadian is innocent until proven guilty of violation of the Canadian, not Israeli or American, Laws, and proven guilty..then the CANADIAN laws would be applied..not the Israeli or the american laws.

(5) has any of the "Khidrs" been charged by any Canadian police or RCMP authority? if not, then shut up please..the media is not an authority.

Posted by: Ebnelbalad on July 6, 2004 08:38 PM

I agree with you that the previous posters comments about Arabs are racist, but those views are not the views of the majority of people, nor are they the reason that so many people want the Khadrs deported.

I believe that it is illegal in Canada to be a member of a Terrorist organization. A number of the Khadrs have fought for terrorist organizations and Mrs Khadr has stated her support for the organization and its ideals.

Maybe you are right, deport might not be the answer, criminal charges may be. Unfortunately, it is difficult to charge people in Canada for crimes that they commit outside of the country. The police do not have the time, nor the resources to build cases when they involve crimes committed in countries like Pakistan.

It is this difficulty that creates the frustration with the system that so many people here are expressing. They only want to see justice no matter what your race or religion.

What is unfortunate is that people like you support these people and try to paint this frustration as racism. Issues like this do of course attract a few racists and that is unfortunate, but the majority of people are just upset by the injustice. You are right, there are Canadian Laws, and they should be applied.

As an aside, the Canadian Constitution which you keep referring to is the Constitution Act of 1867 and has nothing to do with Human Rights. It is only the formal arangements for the joining of the colonies into one country, Canada. While there is a Bill of Rights from 1960, what you are probably referring to is the Charter of Rights and Freedoms from 1982 which give us "freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication."

We are not discriminating against the Khadrs because of their race nor their religion and I find it insulting that you imply so. I only feel that the Khadrs have broken Canadian law by being members of, fighting for and support a terrorist organization. I truly hope that you are not saying that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms gives them protection for these things, that would be a grave perversion and I would suggest that you read the documents that you keep incorrectly quoting.

I would also ask that you stop mistaking Canada for the United States. It is the USA that has rights and freedoms protected in the Constitution and in the Bill of Rights.

Posted by: Rob on July 6, 2004 11:07 PM

Certainly pointing to the fact that we see perpetrators under the coverage of islamic radicalism coming into existing societies under the mantle of religious freedom while supporting and working chained into set channels of organized crime is not racist.

Turkey is among other a islamic state and certainly would not allow for such to go unpunished.

As a matter of fact even Pakistan would probably deal with these people much more efficient.

There is no excuse of gender, age, or race or else to justify conscious involvement in a criminal oraganiztaion such as AL Quaida.

Anyone picking up a gun or committing a crime is a enemy combattant and in this case a criminal and needs to be seen as such.

It does remain a legal question, but we should not be mistaken in the Western world that we harm those Islamic countries and that part of Islam which is not linked with any terror activist groups and would rather combat these in their fight against their own criminals by pretending we are so tolerant that we understand terror to be a means of suppressed people to fight for their freedom. It is not it is the means of organized crime.

Which shows our Western stupidity.

Posted by: on July 7, 2004 06:10 AM

previous post is mine. forgot to sign in.

Posted by: tick on July 7, 2004 06:11 AM

One more clarification before the statement gets ripped apart: calling Turkey a islamic state is of course only correct to the point as Islam is the majority religion. The state itself is secular, and certainly has always known how to seprate state and religion...an example to follow....nevertheless...we are undermining any countries right to fight criminals abusing religion for their means if and when we do not show any willing ness in examining said individuals involvement in related criminal organizations. Infiltration is not an easy strategy to work against once fully established.

Also, we need to be aware that we are prone to uncalled for emotionalism triggered by presiding ignorance of the matters and pushed by classical tools to evoke our pity where we need to let our brains speak and rationalism and pragmatism rule: controlling the growth and network of terrorists/ criminals.

Posted by: tick on July 7, 2004 06:27 AM

You tell people to shut up? And you have the gall to be so self righteous? What the h*ll is it you pretend to follow or honor if you come to this country, break the laws, stay only to suckle, hide or harbor, and then critisize our freedom to state the obvious, which is this family was caught NUMBEROUS times trying to kill people and deserve being kicked out?

In any country what the family did is illegal. In any society this is vile and revolting. In an extremists mind this is something to celebrate, gloat, enjoy and defend such as the path you are taking.

The fact this completely LEGAL and honest petition to have this criminally and sociopathically disgusting family booted out of Canada is absolutely well within the rights of the author and is not racist at all. If you cant handle it go back to whatever rock you crawled out from.

The fact the author got death threats from the likes of you and had to erase all traces of the petition from the net, change email addresses and phone numbers and go into hiding, points to flaming violent attitudes like yours that want to force realistic people to 'shut up' as you demand. God forbid we all turn spineless and not follow through with justice....

Posted by: Brad on July 9, 2004 12:21 AM

I'm moved to comment here. First, Brad, I think he was referring to the previous poster as racist, what with the lovely "Personally, I wouldn't trust an arab as far as I can throw one" comment -- something I find equally offensive racially. Second, you lump him in with the people who send death threats over petitions -- after accusing him of having the "gall to be so self righteous." Pot, kettle, whatnot.

What this family has done is beyond belief and not only do I not want them living in my country, I would like everybody like them -- contrary to what Mr. Munroe may believe -- be they Jew, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, Cultist, or whatever to stop living on my planet entirely or find a nice island to kill each other in while leaving innocent people alone.

The point that Ebnelbalad was trying to make is that the media is not an authority, the CBC is not a legal entity, and we shouldn't take it as such. Are terrorists freedom fighters? I hate to say this, but sometimes, yes. I don't think the likes of bin Laden, sitting in some cave plotting the deaths of his own men so that they can take the lives of tens or hundreds or thousands of innocent non-combatants in the name of some "martyrdom" he himself is too cowardly to accept is a freedom fighter. I think he's human filth. I think the same of Israeli soldiers who coldly gun down unarmed children huddling from a fire fight in the West Bank and the maniac child-like paramilitary wings of the Intifada that put them there in the first place instead of trying to make inroads to peace that has been offered to them so many times we can no longer count. But take a look at some situations, because it's easy to lose sight of reality. Maybe the Israeli is terrified to get on the bus because he doesn't want to blow up, so he carries a gun in defence of his land and makes a mistake. Maybe the Palestinians know they're at the bottom of the rung of the Arab world, effective untouchables swung around by other Muslims as a joke of a rallying banner, living in an area where one side of the street in Palestine makes $100 a month and the other side makes $10,000 a month -- because it's in Israel. Maybe some dirt poor farmer sees rich American contractors walking around his backwater down building oil rigs and gets jealous.

The point is, I think, it's all too easy to associate those who do the fighting with the evil little puppeteers who pull their strings. And yes, we do have to understand this, how to alleviate it. A person that has nothing really does have nothing to lose. It's a tired cliche but it's important to understand. You have the viscious scum of the earth, people like Hitler, people like Stalin, people like bin Laden, that are going to sink their evil little claws into the humiliated and the downtrodden and give them something to die for because they have nothing to live for and it's the next best thing.

We're fortunate to have what we have here. I don't want thugs and murderers and parasites leeching off of it either. But I don't want us to become so calloused that we forget that part of being able to claim we're more civilized than the al Qaeda's of the world comes with acting with more civility. Telling ourselves we're so damn great, not like those filthy Arabs we wouldn't trust as far as we can throw, because they're just a bunch of racist pricks that hate white Christians and the Jews, is a mind-numbingly stupid notion. So is unfairly lumping in somebody with criminals as you did -- what made him the "likes" of somebody that would send a death threat? That he was offended by a racist comment? That you jumped on the attack to him without, I think, fully comprehending the situation doesn't exactly make you racist, though, does it, and it's the same thing.

I love my country, I really do. We have a beautiful, free land, and I want it to stay that way. I don't want terrorists, thugs, and murderers coming in. But unfortunately sometimes we have to let that happen, just like we have to let murderers and rapists and thieves go free from our courts, because it's not about balls and a spine, it's about what's morally right. And allowing a state carte blanche to prosecute without evidence, to arbitrarily decide immigration laws, or adopt Patriot Act-like measures against this country would deprive us of the very freedoms that you're trying to defend.

I wouldn't trade my teen years in the cadet corps or even my brief stint of service in for anything in the world. I love my flag, I love for what it stands, and I loved defending it, but I don't want people to lose sight of what we're defending. It's not just about us vs. them, it's about what makes us what we are. We aren't better because we say so, we're better because we've taken painful, often arduous measures to ensure that we'll never be deprived of the freedom we enjoy, nor those of us who come here seeking to enjoy it. And in protecting those freedoms, we must take painstaking measures that they are deprived only justly and not with the arbitrary whim of the media or swaying, vocal emotion of a few people. There's alot of things I do want or don't want, but I wouldn't ever want the government to pass laws to protect or outlaw them.

Posted by: J M on July 11, 2004 11:37 AM

One point I find very important: the reason for many young people getting involved with terror organizations: poverty.
In areas as Afganistan and Palestine indeed we are facing the issue of money funding for schools, hospitals and other welfare services through channels of radical Islam which is involved or at least utilized by terror organizations to achieve their goals whatever at the given time they may be. Terror is organized crime, and we need to face the fact that as long as we will not create the proper economical stability for such poverty ridden areas, we will be at a loss when fighting channels of influence using and abusing the means of ideology for their criminal goals.

Another point: we in the Western world should not assume that granting the rights of exile always guarantees we are protecting what we believe in.

Radicalism and terror is not democracy, and if our democracies are willing to protect such we need to look very hard to understand the sense in this.

How can we protect what is the very contrary of democracy and out to destroy democracy in every way and with any means available? Where is it we are failing in recogizing the limits and needs to protect democracy, and will this always be possible with democratic means?

It would be nice to claim that, and perhaps it is possible.

Nevertheless, since Sept 11, our world has changed, and sadly to say our freedoms have been limited. It has happened so for the sake of our safety and security...and we will need to continue this path.

Every individual has the freedom of choice (even accepting poverty rather than accepting favors for a horrible pay back: the lives of their own children, is a choice), and fighting for one's goal with the means of terror is making a choice against this freedom. For those that are killed in the process without having had a choice.

Again, we live in a free and rich world, and unless we are willing to change something fundamental in the living conditions of areas that can not function out of their own strength we may be facing an increase of terror used by those who are after what everybody seems to value most these days: hard core cash while claiming to fight for Islam.

Until such changes are on the way, we can only protect ourselves and our democracies with all means possible, even if and when this may mean limiting what we believe in along with the freedom of potential perpetrators to enter our societies and execute fatal harm.

Posted by: tick on July 13, 2004 10:03 AM

Until Canadians elect a strong federal government,
terrorism will remain a very real threat to our
nation as well as our neigbours to the south.

On June 28th, we had a golden opportunity to
give the federal grits a one-way ticket out
of Parliament Hill, but we blew it big time.
The outcome was obvious, ever before the folks
in the West finished casting their votes.

In reality, you just don't reward bad behaviours
but I guess Canadian politics is not reality
and now this nation is stuck spinning its wheels
on the politically icy road under the grossly
dysfunctional federal government.

Posted by: Donald K Munroe on July 16, 2004 10:34 PM

First of all, I must say that I am really impressed by the depth of the comments posted here. I really don't have anything significant to add, but I want to add my opinion anyway. I am also dissapointed by the more intolerant comments posted. It is great when people can keep a level head when they write something down. Particular kudos to Rob, & J M, for your excellent comments.
I too am dissappointed that the petition to support the deportation of the Khadrs has been removed, and disgusted over the threats that Donna recieved, especially the amount that these threats affected her life. Donna I would like to salute you for taking the intiative to do what you did, thanks. Anyways, I agree that the Khadrs should lose their rights to Canadian citizenship, and the benefits that come with it.
In the CBC interview, both Mrs. Khadr and her daughter expressed their pride, and satisfaction with the actions of their family members, & how they died and were injured, respectively.
I am confused, however, about where the Khadrs get off thinking that fighting and dying is such a good thing. I have had considerable exposure to other cultures and I can say for certain that one of the main ideals of Islam, is the abhorence of violence. The term "Jihad" was used out of context in the interview, as it almost always is. But that is beside the point, what I would like to say is that someone who takes action against the defenders of our country, and the people who support these terrorists, have no right setting foot in Canada. In my opinion, we should not bother charging them as criminals, that will simply waste more of the taxpayers money. The government sould not pay for them to leave, they need to pay for what they have done. If it was up to me, I would have their assets seized to provide the money to have them flown out to the nearest country that will take them. They can sort themselves out from there. Sorry if this makes me sound like a radical, but I have no patience for terrorists, or those who support them, and I can't believe that our government has allowed them to come back to Canada.
Anyway, I've said my piece.

Posted by: Hook, 489 on July 17, 2004 08:39 PM

It is not about the Khadrs or alike. It is about understanding where we stand within this new world order of war.

As we need to, IMHO, look at the events since Sept 11 as an attack on our economies covered and mantled up as attacks against our ideologies, we are obliged to learn from our adversaries.

Three years now and we are forgetting. We are forgetting to the extent that we are willing to doubt our own mind, and pretend nothing really happened.

Horror recedes as time passes, and the memory of it fades.....as it fades more, we become more and more unattentive to what might be next.

Just when we are most unattentive, and the next story of horror will appear discredible, and our memories will play the game of denial with us, will be the time to be most watchful.

The horror has not gone away, and it will not stop.

This new war will last for decades, if not longer.

We are losing time over Khadrs and alike.
And we are losing time setting up a proper defense while playing democracy and green pasture in our world.

It is time we start talking and acting.


Posted by: tick on July 21, 2004 08:08 PM

There seems no end to the ranks of those willing to spew excuses for the Khadr family. It seems that everywhere I turn and dare broach the subject, I am immediately beset upon by cries of "racist!" and a cornucopia of other epithets that are beneath repetition. Perhaps this is because I am a white man with a shaved head (I gave up cultivating that barren field long ago) and a goatee? Or perhaps not... In any instance, the excuse-makers are absolutely legion in their numbers. What has set me to wondering is this:

Has it occurred to anyone else that, had we enough of these twits about in the 1940s, we would likely have billeted Rudolph Hess in Casa Loma at the public's expense?

Is there no end whatsoever to this idiocy?

Or is it just me...?

Posted by: Liam C on July 31, 2004 03:13 AM
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